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The dispenser of the hugs and the words -- and peace, believers
say -- is a 49-year-old, crazily busy spiritual leader from
Kerala, Mata Amritanandamayi. To her devotees, she
is 'Amma' or 'Ammachi', which translates
to 'Mother'.
Over the last three decades, Mata Amritanandamayi, born in
a fisher village in a remote coastal village in Kerala's
Kollam district, has been accepted as a spiritual/religious
guru not just across India but in the West, too.
Thus, in 1993, she addressed the Parliament of World Religions
in Chicago; in 1995 spoke at the Interfaith Celebrations at
the Cathedral of St John the Divine, New York, in honour of
the United Nations 50th anniversary.
In August 2000, she addressed the Millennium World Peace
Summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders at the UN General
Assembly, New York. And in October 2002, she is expected to
speak at the UN World Conference of Women's Religious
and Spiritual Leaders in Geneva.
Besides spirituality, she is reputed to look after the material
welfare of the needy. Through the Mata Amritanandamayi Math,
which constructs home for the poor, organises pension for
widows, medical camps, women's shelter, orphanages, relief
funds for calamities, and so on.
In person, she comes across as warm and earthy. She speaks
only in Malayalam, her dialogue rustic, and refers to herself
frequently in the third person.
Mata Amritanandamayi answered rediff.com Senior Assistant
Editor Chindu Sreedharan's queries, as she continued hugging
her devotees. Excerpts from an interview recorded in New York:
You come across as a happy and optimistic person. Were
there occasions when your optimism was questioned?
My early life was a big challenge. That was because it depended
on the behaviour of the people around me. But if you are listening
out for an explosion, when the sound comes it will not frighten
you. (Laughs.) Amma knows that, and so my optimism has not
been shaken.
Have there been occasions when you got angry?
There is no need to get angry, son. People behave the way
they are. If one expects that of them, one need not get angry…
Everyone has goodness in them. Even a faulty watch will show
the correct time twice a day. I prefer to see that, their
goodness, not get angry or criticise their badness.
There have never been instances when you were angry?
When I see the suffering of people… yes, sometimes,
I have felt [that feeling]. I have felt sad too. But that
doesn't help, does it? I realise that. So the next
instant that feeling is gone.
You have been described variously as god, godly avatar,
a religious leader and a spiritual guru.
I have long ago given myself to the world. I am what people
want to see me as. I don't worry too much about what
they see me as. (Laughs.)
But still? Which would you say is the correct description?
Do you see yourself as god, and the people as your devotees?
I see them the same way I see my face in the mirror. The
same way I see myself. God? Well, I don't believe in
a god who sits across the skies, in heaven. My gods are these
people [devotees]. I believe in loving them and serving them.
If they see me as god, well, perhaps it could be because that
is their vision of god.
What is your advise to them? The gist of your teachings?
God is compassion and love. Compassion and love -- those
are the two things the world needs. There are many people
who don't get love. As for compassion, is there any person
in this world who has not sinned? That's what Christ
also said, isn't it? To me, compassion is forgiving,
compassion is giving people even when they don't deserve.
Your embraces have become a sort of trademark now. How,
and why did you start it?
People used to come and tell Amma their troubles. They would
cry and I would wipe their tears. When they fell weeping into
my lap, I used to hug them. Then the next person too wanted
it… And so the habit picked up.
Do you remember when it became a habit?
I can't put a date to it, son. In my youth, I used to
move around the villages. I saw much suffering there. There
were sick people, people who didn't have food, old people
who were uncared for.
I tried to help them, wash them, feed them, comfort them.
And pray. The question I faced at that point was whether love
was in what I was doing. Whether I should continue it. I was
seeing so much suffering, and the question was, should I live
this life amidst suffering, should I die amidst it? The answer
I got from my prayers is that I was in this world to help
them, to do what I can.
Here, as I watch you hugging people, I also see them bursting
into tears… Could you explain what it is about your embrace
that makes people react so?
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Love is the essence of every human being, son. When
it touches them, when the goodness in them is touched,
it can overflow -- as tears.
Today's world is becoming more selfish in nature. Everyone
wants to get. Not give. Only when you sow can you reap.
Without giving, you cannot take. People need to understand
that
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Embracing symbolises giving. It's loving, and love is
what there is a shortfall of in the world. Embracing also
symbolise motherhood, the mother from whom you took birth.
My embraces are aimed at that, to waken the spirit of giving
in people. Amma's embraces are not a drama, son (laughs).
It is not purely physical, but aimed to touch you inside.
To what extend do you think your embraces will help the
ills of the world?
I don't say I can do it 100 per cent. Attempting to
change the world [completely] is like-- pattiyude vaalu kuzhalilittal
nuvarumo [can you straighten the curved tail of a dog]?
But society takes birth from people. So by affecting individuals
you can make changes in the society and, through it, in the
world. You cannot change it, but you can make changes. The
fight in individual minds is responsible for the wars. So
if you can touch people, you can touch the world. (Smiles.)
This smile of yours, it is famed among your followers.
What makes you smile?
That's the nature of the world, son. Sadness will not
get you anywhere in the world. What can an unsmiling face
achieve? A wound will not heal with just by the search for
medicine, will it? Only if you apply the medicine will it
heal.
Your biographies list your childhood as having been harrowing,
and that you were ill-treated -- do you remember yourself
as smiling even then?
If you are asking me if I used to smile then, yes, I was,
I think. The people around me, they had some notions, beliefs,
about how a woman should be. That's what they have been
taught. When they found that I wasn't like that, they
— Yes, I used to smile.
When did you realise you had a special gift that would
make you stand out?
From five years. I used to pray. I realised it, yes.
Mata Amritanandamayi is translated as 'mother of
immortal bliss.' You were born Sudhamani. When did this
change of name occur?
People gave me that name. They started calling me [that name].
When?
I don't remember when. (Laughs.)
In your biography, there is an incident mentioned when
you felt as if there was no difference between you and Lord
Krishna. Could you tell us about it?
Yes, I did feel that. It was an experience. The way I see
my face in the mirror, Krishna's face seemed to sort
of merge with it. It was an intense experience.
There is also the belief that you are an avatar of Goddess
Durga.
That's what people say. That's their belief. I
don't worry too much about these things. To Amma, to
love and serve is more important. What people say, or think
of me, that is theirs to hold. I do not want to worry about
it too much. Today them may call me god, tomorrow they may
call me the devil.
What is your stand on religion?
Religion is necessary despite the fact people are only ready
to die for it, not live for it. It provides a certain safety,
like a fence. But you shouldn't just stay inside that
fence always. That will be like getting into a boat to cross
the river and then, once you reach the other end, not getting
down. Or like pointing to a fruit on a tree but doing nothing
else. Your hunger won't be appeased by just pointing
at it. Only if you climb the tree, pluck the fruit and eat
it, you will be satisfied. Same way, religion is only the
vehicle. To attain god, you need to act.
Does that mean you consider all religion good?
Yes. Compassion and love are taught by all religions. Christ
said that, didn't he? He didn't create Christianity,
people created it.
Some religions have given rise to fundamentalism.
I believe in love. Not fundamentalism.
India has quite a few other world famous spiritual leaders
-- like, for instance, Satya Saibaba. Have you ever met with
them?
Amma doesn't need to do that. Let each person do his own
deed.
A trend today is that Westerners seem to take to Eastern
gurus more than ever. You yourself have a huge following overseas.
What do you think is the reason?
You must ask them that. [Laughs.] I don't want to say
that they are coming to us because we have better spirituality
than in the West. I don't want say the West is bad and
East is good. They have their church here. They have their
dharma, we have ours. I don't way to say ours is better
than theirs.
But still?
Maybe that is because Amma lives her life the way she preaches.
[Laughs.]
That's another thing. You are reputed to meet people
the whole day long into the evenings, managing with just two
hours of sleep. What do you do to relax?
I am always free. Mind should be free, and mine is always
free.
And where do you get the energy to go on like this, day
after day, month after month, year after year?
Mine is a direct connection to electricity, son, not battery.
[Laughs]. I don't depend for light on the candle. I depend
on the sun -- and the sun can never stop glowing.
There are times when I can only give two or three seconds
to a person. When 10 to 40,000 people come. Then I will send
them away fast. In an hour, 2,000 to 2,500 people move on.
You have many critics.
Critics will be there. But they are not there now the way
they were when the avatars of gods were born -- like Christ,
or Ram or Krishna. So many people were killed before their
birth, and so many were killed even when they were living.
So, that will always be there. And criticism should be there.
The easiest way to destroy a nation is to not criticise the
prime minister. Only when criticism comes will the flaws be
highlighted. I am not angry with them. There will always be
differences of view.
In recent years, there have been so many problems in India,
and the world.
There is nothing new in that. That will keep on happening.
One of the world's biggest trouble spot is in India
– Kashmir. You travel to many parts of the world, but
haven't been there yet… Any plans for it?
Wherever people call, I try to go. I go wherever I can find
time to go. If they call me, yes I will go. If my presence
there will bring peace to people, that will be good, I will
go.
Design: Uttam Ghosh; Photographs: Paresh Gandhi
The Rediff Interviews
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